Do Coaches Have Coaches?

I am a strong believer and supporter of the mentor coaching process, the self-coaching or ‘reflective learning/discovery’ process, and the peer coaching process, though not a great fan about coach ’supervision’ (due to the fact that the criteria for coach supervision has not reached a stage of clarity yet) for practising coaches. What works best for you – mentor coaching, ’self-coaching’, peer coaching, coach supervision, others?

For me, mentor coaching is more of ‘reciprocal coaching’ i.e. exchanges of coaching experiences in specific coaching contexts and insights. For example, I had mentor coached a National Director of a university in the areas of ’strategy development’, in exchange for mentor coaching in the areas of ‘critical thinking’ (he being an ‘expert’ in critical thinking). The ‘experiences’ gained from participating in a coaching session with one who is ’specialized’ in a particular coaching branch accelerates the process (though I am aware that a coach need not have to be an expert ‘of the context’, but wouldn’t ‘experience & expertise’ probably accelerate & enhance the quality of the coaching conversation?).

I often engage in ‘indirect mentor coaching’ (though not obviously obvious) via asking ‘profound’, and the obvious & unobvious questions to other coaches (who may specialize in the specific branch of specialization – life, creativity, health, etc. – just like doctors & engineers have their respective branches of specializations) either face-to-face, virtually (like through my various e-groups, coachingcommons, etc.), or during group/management/leadership meetings. In this instant, my coachee/participant/peer is my ‘mentor’. Do you agree with me that each one of us is a ‘mentor’ in our own right?

I used to participate in peer coaching sessions and believe that this is a great process if one is willing to share ‘confidential coaching contexts’ and seek coaching brilliance, resolutions, approaches, techniques, feedbacks, etc. from peer coaches. Peer coaching sessions are great in providing ‘feedbacks’ to coaches who participate with the purpose to refine their coaching skills, provided the ‘perimeters & boundaries and rules’ on peer coaching are specific, clear and adhered to. If you had participated in peer coaching sessions, what could be the one deterrent (if any) for you from participating?

Nowadays, I do a lot of ’self-coaching’/reflective discovery & learning as my journey in learning and practising coaching. I am continuously learning, when engaging & during my coaching sessions, learning and reflecting on ‘what works or not’, ‘what could I have been done better’, ‘what should not I, have done’, etc.

As I learn new perspectives, gain new points of views, reflect on questions and challenges posed everyday, I will usually attempt to ‘build’, ‘consolidate’, ‘modify’, ‘experiment’, ‘do’, ‘make mistakes’, etc.; from these ‘new knowledge’, and just adjust accordingly (this is part of my ’self-coaching’/reflective learning & discovery process). Do you engage in ’self-coaching’/reflective learning & discovery? How would you describe your experiences in ’self-coaching’/reflective learning & discovery?

My answer to the question: “Do I have a coach?” is YES. Everyone I interact with is my ‘coach’ literally.

To the question: “Do I have a coach who uses a ’specific’ coaching process to coach me?” YES & NO. YES, because I learn a lot of new (at least to me) coaching processes everyday, from many sources including the thoughts from niche coaches, leadership gurus, my neighbours, etc. NO, because I do not have a paid coach who is engaged to mentor-coach me, and also I am not required yet to be under coach supervision.

So, given my above sharing, how do we measure and know if one can be an efficient, effective, and result-oriented coach?

Meta-cheerio.

Billy C H Teoh
Malaysia.

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Great questions Linda and thanks for your reflections Billy!

Over my ten years of coaching I have had seven different coaches. Each coach was a model and mentor and challenged my thinking professionally as a mentor coach and personally in my work and life. Early on it was especially important to experience coaching as I was learning and practising as a coach.

As I grew personally and professionally, I engaged in more reflective practise and more skillfull self-coaching (much as our clients as they grow and learn in the process). I continue to have a coach “on-call” for perspective and ongoing learning – more in alignment with the mentor coach/supervision model. I support others in this process as well. Sometimes paid and other times reciprocal.

Engaging with a coach as someone who is a coach is an important part of my ongoing professional and personal development.

Diane

Ooooh, this is a particularly passionate topic for me:

* Have you always worked with the same coach?

NO, never the same coach twice actually

* Do you use a different coach for different goals/issues/challenges/areas of your life?

YES, I choose coaches based on what I need most in my life… and sometimes that’s just a good laugh at myself

* Do you have MORE than one coach at a time?

YES, right now I have a business coach and a writing/publishing coach. Interestingly, both are work oriented, so you can guess what’s happening to my life Which I think supports my answer to the latter question.

* Do you pay ‚Äúretail” for your coach, or is there a professional courtesy from coach to coach – or perhaps a deep discount on the cost?

I started a global community of coaches to coach and be coached by each other without the exchange money. I’ve copied my story below from the most recent issue of the IAC’s VOICE (http://certifiedcoachblog.typepad.com/blog/2009/06/iac-voice-volume-4-issue-36-june-2009-circulation-13018.html):

“Shortly after I first started coaching, I started to swap coaching with one of my trainee coaching colleagues. We agreed to coach each other for 12 sessions. I gave her one session, then she gave me one, and so on until we reached‚Ķ oh, about session 10. What happened at session 10? Why didn’t we continue? There were two reasons.

Firstly, I knew too much about her and she found out too much about me, the result of which meant we could no longer coach each other effectively because we started thinking we knew the answers to each other’s issues! Secondly, we had two different relationships going at the same time. I had a relationship with my colleague as a coach and a client and that meant that her behaviour as a coach affected my interaction with her as a client and vice-versa! With this experience I got the message loud and clear that the coaching ethic warning against dual relationships in the coaching process was put in place for a reason.

After this experience, I was faced with a dilemma: pay for a coach or not have one at all. At the time, I’d given up my day job to coach, so I didn’t have a lot of money, leaving just the latter option. As a coach, it was unthinkable for me not to have my own coach. So I got creative and gathered together a group of coaches who wanted coaching without having to pay money. By setting up a chain-like system, we all got coached but never coached the same person who was coaching us. This small gathering has since spread to hundreds of coaches from around the world and is known throughout as Contra Coaching.”

* Do you offer this service to other coaches?

Of course. By coaching someone else, I get coached. Most recently a coaching colleague came on one of my non-coaching retreats. I coached her for the first time on that retreat and then, we both joined a round of Contra Coaching so that I could continue coaching her and, in exchange, receive some invaluable coaching from a writing/publishing coach who was registered for the same round. We’re all happy campers now.

For me, there’s nothing like having a coach. AND I like to distinguish clearly between coaching and mentoring. I also went through the mentoring process over the last month (whilst having coaching sessions with two separate coaches). Coaching is for my own development as a person. Mentoring is for the development of my coaching skills. My mentor listened to a recording of a coaching call and provided written feedback on technical aspects of my coaching. Next week we’re going to have a “coaching” session on the technical feedback and the issues that arose for me. Already my coaching has developed significantly. Again, I didn’t pay money for this mentoring. I used Contra Coaching and to receive that mentoring last week, I gave mentoring to another coach in India the month before. Interestingly, I probably got just as much out of giving mentoring to someone else as I did from receiving it.

Kerryn Griffiths

Reading the questions, I feel compelled to jump in with my thoughts and experiences… Let me answer the questions posed, according to my experiences:

Have you always worked with the same coach?
No, I’ve had multiple coaches throughout my life in corporate as well as my transition into full-time coaching.

Do you use a different coach for different goals/issues/challenges/areas of your life?
Yes, depending on the area I’m focusing on, I believe you need someone who specializes in that particular area. Similar to a doctor, you go to a General Practitioner for some things, yet seek out a Specialist for specific areas. The coaches I invest with are usually specialists, since they can help to shorten the learning curve rather quickly.

Do you have MORE than one coach at a time?
Yes, at times, but not all of the time. It depends on where I’m at, and what I’m working on. For example, as I’m writing a book, I seek experts who have written books who can coach me to write a book. When marketing my business, I seek an expert who has successfully marketed their business and who teaches client attraction by answering the questions that are already in the mind of my clients. I continually learn by reading, having provocative conversations, and digesting (or pondering) information.

Do you pay ‚Äúretail” for your coach, or is there a professional courtesy from coach to coach – or perhaps a deep discount on the cost? I’ve been involved in both, where I pay retail and I partake in peer coaching. I prefer to pay ‘retail’, since I fully believe that in order to expect to be paid for a service, you have to be willing to pay for the service yourself. If I didn’t want to invest in my growth and knowledge, how could I expect my clients to invest in themselves? To me, it would feel unethical, almost hypocritical.

Do you offer this service to other coaches?
I am fortunate to have invested in a Mastermind group, where fellow coaches mentor me in areas I need help, while providing help to them in areas I can contribute through my previous investments in coaching along with my experiences.

But shouldn’t coaches – of ALL people – have regular coaching?
Yes, I believe all coaches should have regular coaching. I’m not saying that you need coaching at all times, yet at least periodically coaches should be willing to invest in themselves to heighten the level of coaching their clients will receive. I consider it almost like a re-certification process, bringing my knowledge to a new level, or reminding me of things I may have forgotten or not fully understood the first time I learned it. Think about the first time you watch a movie. There are certain things you see based on where you are at in your life. Yet the same movie, watched even 6 months or a year later, raises your awareness to a new level, you see things you may not have noticed before. That’s what coaching, learning, re-reading articles and books can do for you — give you a new view of things you may not have seen before.

You know the right questions for your clients – do you know what questions to ask yourself – or is there a blind spot that only another coach can shine a light on?
I believe we all have blindspots where other coaches, peers, mentors can help to shed some light. Coaches may be more self-aware than some people in the general population, but there usually are blind spots that we can’t see what is sometimes so obvious to others.

Suppose cost/time/whatever/ wasn’t a factor. Would you jump at the chance to be coached? Would you be willing to offer reciprocal coaching to a colleague?
I do jump at the chance to be coached, since I believe it’s a worthwhile investment. I’ve offered reciprocal coaching to other coaches and colleagues, and it seems to me that only when they’ve invested time and money into the experience, the greatest results occur. Without these two key items (time and money), some growth occurs but not always the greatest amount of growth possible. It seems easier to put off or cancel appointments or calls when you haven’t fully invested in the process.

After all, when looking for a coach, shouldn’t clients ask, ‚ÄúWell, Do YOU have a coach?”
Although clients shouldn’t judge you by whether or not you have a coach, I believe they should ask what ways you are furthering your education/learning process. This sends to them the message that they will receive the benefit from your investment in further growth as your learning evolves. The coaches I invest with have their own high-level coaches, and I believe I benefit from their learning and evolving process that they, too, have committed to.

Great Question!

Each of the responders has made some great points.

It is important to recognize first that successful coaching requires mastery of FOUR significantly different areas:

1. Coaching Skills — this is what you get from the better coaching schools in initial training and, sometimes continuing education.

2. Business Practices — this covers everything from your business structure, taxes and accounting to computer backup software and auto-responders for your newsletter.

3. Getting Clients — covers the whole world of marketing, websites, networking, and social media.

4. Peak Coach Performance(TM) — It is not possible to do your best coaching if you are not at your best — from EQ and understanding your own personality type to impact of health and stress on your own performance.

As coaches, we also know that our clients have different personalities and learning modality preferences. Thus, it is clear that one size (or approach) does NOT fit all areas for improvement nor is one approach always the best way to improve.

So, that being said, in order to master all 4 areas necessary for successful coaching, a number of processes are available and all have value:

*In Person classes / training
*Books
*Teleconferences (hearing and sometimes talking)
*Webinars (much better because they use 3 learning modalities — seeing, hearing and talking)
*CD classes
*Mastermind groups
*Group coaching
*Personal Coaching

Given the 4 areas for success, there is no 1 coach who has a specialty in EVERYTHING. Those who claim to be able to coach anything do their clients a grave dis-service.

I have had external coaches. I am also fortunate (usually – LOL) to have my wife who is also a professional coach. We regularly interact through the day and are a great coaching benefit to each other. We have at least daily spot interactions with each being able to ask ‚Äúcoaching questions” to clarify our thought processes.

Best Regards,
Chuck
Executive Coach

Chuck, I have two questions for you (and for anyone else who might read this and have something to contribute):

i) I’m keen to find out how the interaction between you and your wife looks? I have wondered how it would be if everyone had coach training… and everyone were ‘coaching’ or at least, engaging like a coach, with everyone all of the time. This throws into the question the coaching ethic that we can’t ‘coach’ someone with whom we have another relationship… at one stage I adhered to that (after experience showed me how valid it was) but lately, I’ve been experimenting with ‘coaching’ my partner again… with different expectations, to see if there’s a way… because deep down, I do believe that the world could change dramatically if everyone were coaching everyone, or at least engaging like a coach, all of the time… or let’s say more of the time

ii) Also, I’m wondering about what you said here:

“As coaches, we also know that our clients have different personalities and learning modality preferences. Thus, it is clear that one size (or approach) does NOT fit all areas for improvement nor is one approach always the best way to improve.”

I wonder if we apply a process coaching that uses core processes rather than a particular “model” to allow us to be fully present with the client and therefore respond to the client, could this not be a ONE size that does fit all? i.e. if you can develop the PROCESS that allows you to be 100% present with your client and meet them where they’re at… does this not always fit? Can we, as coaches, fit ourselves to our clients by applying pure process coaching?

Food for thought…

Kerryn

______________________________________________________
Kerryn Griffiths ~ Global ReciproCoach Coordinator
http://www.reciprocoach.com

Hi Kerryn,

I like the way you are taking the conversation deeper with your last two comments. So I will respond to both your points together.

I’ve found that I can coach those nearest to me ONLY if I use the process you suggest, to be completely present to them. I call this the world’s most subtle coaching. It requires a lot of patience and it does seems to have a wonderfully positive impact over time.

I’m not sure if this would apply to every single client because I do think there are clients who can benefit from a strong dose of expertise along with their coaching.

Cheers, Angela

This is such an important question. Thanks for asking!

I’m a strong believer in every coach having a coach. In fact, I don’t think a professional coach has credibility if they’ve never had their own professional coach.

New coaches need buddy coaches in addition to their own mentor coaches, because they can learn quite a lot from each other. However, most of all, they need to work with a successful professional coach of their own. Otherwise, they tend to perpetuate urban myths about coaching and actually stop each other from succeeding. (Ex: The myth that you can’t start marketing your coaching business until you know your niche has probably hamstrung thousands of coaching businesses.)

For myself, I worked non-stop with my own coaches for the first three years of my coaching career, with three different coaches. I always tried to work with “the best”. That said, some of the most valuable lessons that I learned from them were from their “mistakes”.

In more recent years, I’ve worked on and off within regular coaching arrangements in addition to collegial “on demand” coaching arrangements. One of the perks of being a coach is being able to call on friends for “emergency coaching”.

Usually I work with one coach at a time, but I do work with coaching specialists on some projects.

Hi Angela,

Thanks for sharing your experience. Good point… extreme patience is the vital ingredient to coaching those closest to us.

I agree that there are some clients who benefit from a good dose of expertise… when I do this, I’m often very aware that at that moment, I don’t feel like I’m “coaching”, but rather have put on the consultant’s hat. And when I’m doing this, I often question myself, “Should I be telling them this?” or “Should I be leading them here?” or “Should I question them to draw upon their own resources to find those answers that I can give them in a second?”

Maybe you, and others reading, can share your experiences on these questions also?

Kerryn

Kerryn,

Interestingly, the ICF code of ethics was changed in December, 2008:

It was…

“The International Coach Federation adheres to a form of coaching that honors the client as the expert in his/her life and work, believes that every client is creative, resourceful, and whole. Standing on this foundation, the coach’s responsibility is to:

“Discover, clarify, and align with what the client wants to achieve
Encourage client self-discovery
Elicit client-generated solutions and strategies
Hold the client responsible and accountable”

Now it is…
“Part One: Definition of Coaching
Section 1: Definitions
• Coaching: Coaching is partnering with clients in a thought-provoking and creative process that inspires them to maximize their personal and professional potential.
• A professional coaching relationship: A professional coaching relationship exists when coaching includes a business agreement or contract that defines the responsibilities of each party.
‚Ä¢ An ICF Professional Coach: An ICF Professional Coach also agrees to practice the ICF Professional Core Competencies and pledges accountability to the ICF Code of Ethics. ”

This NEW APPROACH changes the philosophy from “The client has the answers” to a partnership “with clients in a thought-provoking and creative process that inspires them to maximize their personal and professional potential.”

In a recent newsletter, Dave Buck (Coachville owner) has interpreted this as: “The expertise embargo has been lifted! Now we can deliver TRUE COACHING, using our expertise the way we have always known was best, without worrying about violating the code!”

This appears to be a significant philosophical change. Partnership clearly allows for sharing of info where “the client has the answers” did not.

Chuck

My interpretative take is that the coachee is the person in the coach-coachee relationship to ‘discover and own the solution’. It is the coach’s responsibility to take the coachee through the process of ‘discovering and owning the solution’, not giving the solution per se.

The coach may co-create the solution with the coachee (as what I was taught at my coaching certification program) by sharing his/her ‘expertise’, presenting his/her ‘expertise’ in a creative way that does not bias towards as mentoring, advicing, consulting, teaching, or deviates from the principle that the coachee should be the person who ‘discovers’ the solution. Am I interpreting the ICF code correctly here?

An example of my practice, especially in the context where a coachee may have ‘limited menu’ of solutions or ‘got stuck’, is to share my ‘expertise’ either as a previous experience; subject matter expert; story, anecdote, metaphor or analogy; etc., and then followed with the questions along the line of: “How would you built on the sharing of my previous experience on this issue, to come up with a solution that works for you?” (the objective of this process is to provide ’solution menus’, without providing the ‘answers/solutions’, and encourage the coachee to generate & build on/further, to arrive at improved, original or more creative solutions that works for the coachee, NOT the coach).

One of the challenges I am facing as a coach has always been framing the ’solution menus’ as tools to lead to ‘generative and original solutions’ for the coachee, and NOT as the ‘final solutions’ adopted by the coachee. This is particular so, where the coachee has no previous knowledge, skills, experiences, inklings, etc., in order for him/her to arrive at viable solutions. What would be your approaches to handling these challenges during coaching?

The coaching conversation flow should become more generative, natural, and productive with the shift in ICF philosophy. Do you agree?

Meta-cheerio.

Billy C H Teoh
Malaysia.

Malaysia.
Thank you all for reflecting on this very relevant and interesting topic. Some of your questions are really food for thought.
• Have you always worked with the same coach? No, however I still have the same supervisor I started with a couple of years ago. We on a three monthly basis but also as and when there is a need
• Do you use a different coach for different goals/issues/challenges/areas of your life? Yes,
• Do you have MORE than one coach at a time? Hardly
‚Ä¢ Do you pay ‚Äúretail” for your coach, or is there a professional courtesy from coach to coach – or perhaps a deep discount on the cost? Yes, both and‚Ķ.
• Do you offer this service to other coaches? Regularly, also as part of my community development project

Hi there

Thanks to Kerryn for highlighting this fabulous discussion to me!

I actually work as a coach for coaches, and as a coach supervisor, so for me it’s absolutely key to my integrity that I can answer yes to receiving – and paying for – regular support.

I have both a peer coaching relationship, where we co-support each other, and a paid coach and a paid supervisor.

I’ve used different coaches, depending on my needs at the time. That said, I’m someone who always feels that there is something on the table worth discussing and finding out more about – I am always amazed when people say they don’t have anything to be coached on!

Part of why I pay for my coaching and supervision is that I know it makes me feel more authentic in my work with clients – how can I expect them to pay me for my investment in myself and my skills, when I don’t expect the same from my peers?

I just added supervision and have been interested to see the discussion ranging on this – I think this shows the new-ness of supervision as a term, and in differentiating it from therapeutic supervision. I’m excited to be part of that journey!

A few new thoughts springing from comments from Chuck, Billy and Claire…

Thanks for the heads-up Chuck – I hadn’t noticed the change in ethics… I’m interested to know where the ICF draws their definition of coaching from… you don’t happen to know by any chance? Or anyone else?

I find the definition interesting as I conducted a broad literature review and my definition of coaching from research that was available just over a year ago looked like this:

“Coaching is a goal-directed, multi-faceted process for enhancing people, work and life.” (Griffiths, 2008)

I have noticed in the past that there seems to be some conflict between what the ICF says about coaching and what research suggests. In fact, I wrote a paper for the International Journal of Evidence-Based Coaching about “Regulating the regulators” (http://www.business.brookes.ac.uk/research/areas/coachingandmentoring/volume/volume6_num1.html) to start questionning this.

After taking a close look at what the ICF says and what actual research suggests, I’m careful about what I accept point blank and always ask, “Yeah, but where did it come from?” first… and then I decide in what context I’d like to accept the information… to be honest, right now I’m not so sure about the definition…

Billy, your comments were very practical and helpful. I think it’s something we all work with… walking that fine line between generating the answers and giving the answers… I do consistently experience however, that when I “tell” it is certainly less powerful than when they discover… I experience this as a coach and as a client.

And Claire, I’m interested in the point you, and others have made about, “If I don’t pay for coaching, how can I expect clients to?” I have paying coaching clients, and it’s part of the way I earn my money, but there is a little part of me that wonders, “What if coaching were one day something we didn’t pay for?” I guess this question relates to the discussion above about “coaching” our loved ones… although with the new ICF definition, it wouldn’t appear to be “coaching” anymore…

Hmmm… it’s all making me think a little deeper about the things we’re encouraged to just accept!

Kerryn Griffiths
Global Reciprocoach Coordinator
http://www.reciprocoach.com

Kerryn,

Thanks for sharing the link to your study. It does open lots of questions for me about coaching standards and how we (all coaches) can clarify our understanding of exactly we do that leads to the best results for our clients.

The IAC is very interested in studying this issue further and we are open to working with researchers who could help to validate and refine our standards.

The IAC Coaching Masteries (http://www.certifiedcoach.org/learningguide/masteries.htm) were written by an international team of coaches, mainly based on their own experience of what worked in the best coaching they had received.

Angela Spaxman
President, International Association of Coaching
http://www.certifiedcoach.org

Thank you Linda for providing juicy topic of conversation.

> So would a coach who coaches him/herself have a fool for a client? And is it a good idea to coach yourself?

Fool, no, but missing out on the opportunity to become great and truly serving their clients to the best of their abilities.

Coaching is like the Jo-Hari window – you don’t know what you don’t know and you need someone to shine a light on things – to stretch, to grow, and challenge.

>We’ve had an ongoing (and quite fascinating) discussion here at the Commons about whether self-coaching is even POSSIBLE. (Read comments)

Yes if you only look at the basic skill set and the see it as a set of questions. ie. What is it, Where do you want to go, What’s needs to happen to accomplish it, How is it going, What is it now etc.

More complex issues like nuances and the art of coaching – certainly are more challenging. nuancing your own nuances?

>Coach, do you have a coach?

YES

> Have you always worked with the same coach?

No, over the past 18 years I’ve had dozens of them. Sometimes I circle back. Several I have fired. Longest I’ve ever worked with one coach I think matches the longest I’ve ever worked with a single client 18 months.

> Do you use a different coach for different goals/issues/challenges/areas of your life?

Absolutely. At one point in 2005 when I was running Life Coach Alliance, LLC (a national coaching company of 50 associate coaches), maintaining my own coaching business, while serving as the president of the Minnesota Coaches Association – I had four coaches simultaneous. Each with their own skill set, expertise, style, and satisfied very different needs.
At that time I had a voice coach to literally help me find my voice in leadership. I had an equine coach who worked with me on leading herds, teams, and myself. I had business coach to keep me focused and on track on each of the businesses. Then I had a life coach to help me hold it all together, have a life, and be me.

This was in addition to two peer coaching circles I was involved in.

> Do you have MORE than one coach at a time?
I have tended to always have at least two at any time. One to work on a specific area, interest or focus with a coach with specific expertise or experience in the subject and then another to as a business coach, life coach, and/or mentor coach.

> Do you pay ‚Äúretail” for your coach, or is there a professional courtesy from coach to coach – or perhaps a deep discount on the cost?

I pay their going rates. I walk my talk. If I expect people to pay my rates I am honoring the value I see in my own coaching. Does this mean I pay the same for each, no, and that is because people valuate their services differently. Also when working with multiple coaches simultaneously, you tend to meet less frequently with each, but more in aggregate.

For years I was involved in a round-robin/coaching circle where we each paid $200 which is a lot lower than my “rack rate” for my own coaching, but since we were all at the same level and we were all paying the same, the price was irrelevant – what mattered was the quality of the coaching.

> Do you offer this service to other coaches?

Absolutely. It is now the majority of my coaching business. I am a seasoned coach of seasoned coaches – meaning that I frequently work with PCCs, MCCs, senior coaches (5+ years of coaching exp). I’ve been coaching for 18 years, been trained formally through four coach training programs and informally through probably a through a half dozen more – not to leave out all the learning that comes from other coaches. We focus on the art of coaching and on integrating new concepts and layers to their coaching – stretching their skillset and making it an artform. Spiral Dynamics, Integrated coaching, flow, Arbinger, etc.

I also work with newer coaches as a business coach/consultant/teacher as I am versed in business structures, strategic and tactical planning, intellectual property, ethics, finances, etc – having run several successful companies.

>If the answer is no, then why not?
>cost, scheduling,etc?

IMHO these are mostly excuses and I throw back the following questions:

Do you truly believe that coaching is worth what you are charging?
Do you truly believe that coaching is an investment in your life, business, trade, etc?
Do you truly believe that coaching has an excellent ROI?

IF you are not paying for your own coaching
1) You don’t have a business, you have a hobby
2) You are being inauthentic
3) You need to get a job while you build your cash reserves to invest in your coaching business.

> Finding times that work can seem overwhelming.

Only if you don’t put your big rocks in first. Take care of the business and yourself first.

> But shouldn’t coaches – of ALL people – have regular coaching?

In general YES

> Suppose cost/time/whatever/ wasn’t a factor.
> Would you jump at the chance to be coached?

Here is where I depart from my above comments. There are times when you need to process and integrate what you have learned and that can be days, weeks, or even months between coaching sessions. So do you always need to have a coach – no. Access to one when you and acting on it when you want one – yes.

> Would you be willing to offer reciprocal coaching to a colleague?

Yes, and I say this with a severe caveat – we must equally find equivalent levels of value in the relationship, though not necessarily of the same kind of value. I have two coaches that I have been triad with for going on four years. We each are at different coaching levels, and very different styles and approaches, with very different backgrounds. These differences, to me are of great value to me, while to one of compatriots my bredth and depth of coaching is of value to them. We do 2 on 1 coaching or coach/client/observer coaching or simple group download and brainstorm depending on what we each need from our monthly call.

It makes it terribly awkward if we are not truly skill level matched and/or value extraction matched. For that reason I tend to do reciprocal coaching only with seasoned coaches.

Thanks for letting me share and having this tremendous and important discussion.

Matthew Rochte
Seasoned Coach for Seasoned Coaches
http://www.CoachingIntentionally.com

Hello Chuck & Kerryn

Yes the code was severely updated at the end of last year after extensive research, international vetting, dissection, review, and approval. I served on the ethics committee from 2003-2008 and on the code review team as scribe and change tracker for this latest change. I have posted a summary of the process over at Co-Active Network http://coactivenetwork.com/webx/.59bfbf27/1

With respect to the definition of coaching. In 2006, when we started this code revision process, there had been growing unrest with the “official ICF” definition of coaching. Common complaints were that it was too long, it was myopic, it did not necessarily reflect what coaches were actually practicing. In 2004, Dave Buck, owner of Coachville, in his myths of coaching set out to redefine coaching as we new it. And shake it up he did. He said “Coaching is inspiring an individual or a team to produce a desired result;
through personalized teaching, expanding awareness, and designing environments.” Clean, simple, bold, and elegant – coach-like definition.

Upon review of the ICF website we found no less than SEVEN different “official” definitions of coaching none of which were less than a paragraph long. We took these definitions, gathered about a dozen more commonly used definitions of coaching including Mirriam Webster’s. We referenced several research reports on defining coaching and one in particular, which I’m forgetting its source, on what a definition of coaching needs to include. The amalgam was presented to and vetted by the full committee, the international advisory panel, the board, and several committees. Ultimately the new definition is that vetted version massaged slightly by the ICF lawyers. In all several hundred sets of international eyes found common ground in this new, one sentence definition.

In addition to the new formal definition. We further defined what is coaching, what is a professional coaching relationship, and what is an ICF Professional Coach.

Matthew Rochte
Coach for Seasoned Coaches
http://www.CoachingIntentionally.com

Was great to read that most coaches who commented indeed do engage with one or more coaches. Thanks to all who responded, making this a valuable discussion. Anyone else?

I was off-line for just two days, and wow! abundance of interesting thoughts and perspectives shared.

One interesting thought that comes to mind since I began engaging in coaching and is still on my mind, is: “In defining coaching, would defining it based on principles of ‘best practices’ be the way forward? How could we reconcile the various ‘disagreements’ on the definition of coaching? If we are unable to reconcile, and that ‘reconciliation’ is not logically the right thing to do, should we permit the definition of coaching to evolve through time, or is it our accountability and responsibility to accelerate the definition process?

Billy C H Teoh
Malaysia.

To follow up with my earlier comments on this thread, coaches having coaches for ’support’, ‘feedbacks’, and ‘open discussion’ should be ’standard practice’ to pave the way to the evolution to higher ‘quality’ coaching, provided ‘benchmarking’ is congruent and universally acceptable as ‘good coaching practice’ among those stakeholders in the coach-to-coach ‘relationships’. In agreement of anything else to add?

Billy C H Teoh
Malaysia.

Billy,

One of the things I really appreciate about the ICF’s new definition of coaching is how inclusive it is. It allows both continuous evolution of coaching methodologies and wide diversity of practice to match the diversity of client’s needs.

I guess when you’re referring to using best practices you are talking more about defining the standards: how we do it. The definition itself simply describes what it is. Is that right?

Thanks for the overview Matthew – that’s helpful… would love some references though… even before I became a coaching researcher, I confess to getting a little tired of reading things about coaching with authors saying that it was drawn from “lots of research” but not telling us which research exactly. Hey, a recent new topic here in the Commons goes a bit more into this conversation… no doubt you’ve seen it: http://coachingcommons.org/featured/its-official-the-client-does-not-have-all-the-answers/

Loved the questions Billy! Especially the last one… to evolve through tme or to pin it down now? I think we could probably pin it down now with the research that is already in existence… but, I’d be careful to use research that is based on observing of actual coaching rather than “what coaches say about coaching”. A lot of research is based on what coaches say about coaching and because I did a study that correlated what coaches said with what their clients said, I noticed some discrepancies that could only be ironed out by observing coaching in action.

Kerryn Griffiths
http://www.reciprocoach.com