Listen: An Interview with Laura Crawshaw about Coaching Abrasive Executives

So I’m wondering….has anyone here coached an executive that might be considered “abrasive”? What are the symptoms of abrasiveness? I propose that it’s a subjective designation, yet Laura’s study shows an intervention model which seems to create changed perceptions. What do you think?

Abrasive Executives are people in power who are not in rapport with the people under them. They either process information differently and are not aware of the distinctions of visual/auditory/kinesthetic information processing, or they have low EQs (emotional intelligence quotient), or they are living out strategies they have learned from the past from either their family of origin or someone they have known. Another possibility is that he/she really doesn’t care about how people see him/her and like the powerful feeling of dominating others as a way of avoiding their own deeply felt sense of inadequacy and the fear of being exposed. In that case, it might help to get clear on the benefits and costs personally and professionally to the outcomes he/she is creating.

Hi Francine.
The 20 minute interview with Laura was music to my ears…a coach that coaches and actually gets it and especially when dealing with the issues of the psychopathic bullies in our workplace.

This couldn’t be possible Francine, a coach that is using counseling and therapeutic skills and getting so close to her clients how scary. These are humans you’re dealing with Laura, they have emotions. You’re not trained to handle their emotions your coach not a therapist, I am confused what is coaching any way.

Ok I have had my fun…

Coaching schools listen up…Id like to share something I am concerned with.

May I quote from a book that will be used and is being used in Universities around the globe in this 21st century to teach executive coaching… The Sherpa Guide, it blows me out of the water to think that we have come this far and yet we will be presenting the Sherpa Guide as learning material for the next generation of executive coaches.

If we are going to teach people to become just executive coaches can we please ensure they are taught life coaching first. Emotional skills are necessary for every type of coaching.Therapies and techniques such as SFT, NLP, Reality Therapy, Narrative Therapy and CBT are also key learnings that assist our clients. Lets not take two steps back, lets keep moving forward. If we think that we can coach executives with out getting too involved and only focusing on their performance and results then sadly we are not coaching humans, we are coaching machines.We humans are energy in motion, releasing emotions is an integral part of what we can assist our clients with.I have never coached a client who does not present with out an emotional issue that comes up one way or an other. These blockage as we know must be dealt with if not we remain blocked. None of this is rocket science, an empathic coach who has high quality communication and listening skills can bring about powerful emotional releases.Just listening can bring about massive insights for our clients. And yet here we have a a relatively new book on the market suggesting the following.

Here are few lines from the book that confused me…

“We do not discuss personal matters with our clients, we do not discuss family issues with our clients, we are not therapists, if a client brings up family, children, or personal matters, a good coach will redirect the conversation. When your client shares a situation at home, it will often revel a problem at work. Coaching must be focused on performance and results, nothing else. This is why coaches are hired to produce tangible results. Once your client understands that you don’t under any circumstances, get into personal matters, he will abide by your standards and respect them”

and as well from the book,

“Steve Berglas, a professor at UCLA’s Anderson School of management, writes in the Harvard Business Review Coaches can make bad situations worse, because they don’t have the background in psychological problems. He’s right Sherpa coaching is not therapy. We do not discuss family issues…” and so on as above.

UNBELIEVABLE…The Sherpas guide to coaching, another version of two peoples understanding on how they think we are to coach. And this my fellow coaches will be used in universities around the world in this 21st century. It seems like this book has come from the 20th century.

On one page I read not to do this and on the next page not to do that, then as if by magic when you get to page 29 “3 Find the uncloaked self, You are helping your clients find out who they are uncloaked. The client’s true identity can only be revealed when you dig deep and search with diligence. Clients are only coachable if they are willing to put down their defenses and examine themselves. As a coach, you will need to help them get there. Self-examination can be very painful. Your clients must be handled with the greatest of care, yet you cannot allow them to hide their problems”?????

Well I sure am confused, as I have been whilst looking at on the web these last 5 years. Our so called gurus are confused, our training organizations are on different pages, the public is confused and approx 95% of coaches are not making an income from coaching. Whats going on?

And we wonder why the public is confused about what coaching is and isn’t, never mind what new up and coming coaches are expected to understand.

Great work Laura, I love your passion and thanks Coaching Commons for sharing Laura’s experience with us.

Cheers
Gary

Thanks, Dene, for a succinct definition of abrasive executives: “Abrasive Executives are people in power who are not in rapport with the people under them.” Your observations seem like a perfect lead-in to the many useful questions that Gary has raised about coaches, coaching and the preparation of coaches.

Gary, your thinking is running alongside that of some of my colleagues hosting threads here- e.g. Jonathan Sibley’s comments re: coaching and psychotherapy. I’m not familiar with the Sherpa guide but would encourage you to take heart in looking at the texts being used in some other university-based coaching prep programs- e.g. The Evidence-Based Coaching Handbook (Stober & Grant), used at Fielding University and the University of Texas at Dallas, among others. As an educator, I am concerned about and interested in the standards for coaching preparation and development and suspect you and I could have a very rich (and lengthy) exchange of ideas. In the meantime, consider joining an upcoming virtual dialogue on a newly devleoping study of how coaches develop- (Parallel Tracks? May 7 Virtual Dialogue). Keep posting!

Gary,

I understand and to a small point agree with your reasoning concerning executive coaching and counseling. There must be an accepted connection in regards to leadership and emotions. My wife recently was trained by the authors of the Sherpa Executive coaching program, back in Ohio. She has since been coaching clients and has made tremendous breakthroughs in all of them, with a couple even saying they were planning to leave their respective companies, prior to coaching.

I have read the book, discussed issues with my wife in regards to the process and although it does seem robotic, one should understand a couple things. If we allow emotions to run our coaching, we will not move far in making this leader stronger. I would rather refer a person out for counseling and make sure they have their personal house in order, prior to trying to elevate their career success.

The second thing is that in 85% of coaching situations, the company is footing the bill for coaching. They want a process that is going to elevate their company with superior leadership. Although, they want their staff mentally fit to do their job, they do not want to pay for a coach to show up every week for a therapy session. We, as coaches can use the emotions to understand where the client is professionally and we use that information to lead the client down a path that they can properly separate the personal from the professional.

Again, if a client is not mentally fit and I am on the company’s payroll as a contractor, it is my professional duty to report to the company that the employee is not currently a candidate for coaching, without giving them specifics.

The Sherpa process is top notch, when followed. I have converted the process into workshops for the masses and see participants have numerous ah-ha moments and discover things that no other training or program can deliver. My wife has had several clients, both men and women cry during the first coaching meeting, and say it was one of the most powerful and satisfying moments of their life. I will be going back east to attend a coaching course within the next year.

One last thing, the Sherpa process does not tell you how to be a coach, it gives you a process by which to be successful. So, whoever you are and whatever your background or focus, you have a path to follow.

I can imagine at least two reasons to limit the scope of an executive coach’s work with a client – level of competence and desire for quick results.

On the one hand, we probably all agree that coaches should not practice beyond their level of competence. On the other hand, even the clients of executive coaches are not just “employees” but human beings in overlapping systems that sometimes are relevant to problems at work. For example, there is quite a bit of research about the effects of “work life spillover”.

In addition, I think there is some sort of continuum from “therapy would be strongly recommended for this person” to “therapy might benefit this person” to “helpful therapy for this person would probably look a lot like coaching”.

While someone who is incapacitated at work due to substance abuse issues or because he / she is grieving the loss of a family member might be a clearer referral to therapy for some coaches (dare I say many coaches), a number of clients are likely to fall into a grayer area – the problems may not be so serious that a coach would refuse the assignment without a therapy referral, but the most effective work might involve a broader view of the person within their system.

As an aside, Anthony Grant did research on life coaching clients and a fair percentage of those who asked for coaching could be diagnosed with some form of psychiatric disorder.

I think the question is how to best help our clients, given where they are in their lives, within our levels of competence. Those with clinical training typically have thousands of hours of supervised experience and a Masters degree or PhD. This may be overkill, but what is the limit of a coach’s competence? I think this is still work in progress, without clear answers.

Finally, there is the question of our terms of engagement. If we are being hired to show improved performance within 6 months, we should problem assume that coaching that looks like long-term therapy, even if we are trained, is not indicated. However, if we are working within our level of competence and the sponsor and client are in agreement about the scope of our work (this is key), it may not be in the client’s or company’s best interest to overly narrow our scope.

This is a controversial, evolving topic. What thoughts / reactions do others have?

I am responding to Gary Scholz’s response to my interview, in which he referred to “psychopathic bullies in the workplace”. Having coached abrasive executives for over 15 years I was intrigued to discover that, in fact, they are not psychopathic, but individuals who have very low emotional intelligence, particularly in the realm of reading and interpreting other’s social signals. Additionally, I found that their harsh management styles were learned from earlier family or work experience; abuse is learned. I discuss this in greater detail in my book “Taming the Abrasive Manager: How to End Unnecessary Roughness in the Workplace” (Jossey-Bass, 2007). I was also interested in the comment “These are humans you’re dealing with Laura, they have emotions. You’re not trained to handle their emotions your (sic) coach not a therapist, I am confused what is coaching any way.” and would like to respond.

In point of fact, I started out as a licensed psychotherapist and practiced for many years before I became an executive coach specilizing in working with abrasive executives, supervisors, and managers. It would seem that someone who is practiced in the field of psychotherapy would be most qualified to distinguish the boundaries between coaching and psychotherapy, and I am very conscientious in referring clients for psychotherapy when I detect underlying mental disorders or past trauma meriting psychotherapeutic intervention, I will make that recommendation to my coaching clients, however, this is fairly rare. Through my practice and research for the past 15 years, I have developed a method for coaching abrasive “bosses” that does not involve psychotherapy and is effective with the majority of abrasive bosses who act out not because of mental disorder, but because of deficits in insight and empathy – they are essentially “clueless” to the nature and impact of their destructive behavior. I will be teaching this method to interested coaches through Executive Insight Development’s Boss Whispering Institute in 2009 in the U.S. and Switzerland.

I believe that professionals from other disciplines have much to offer to the practice of coaching, and that as coaching specialties evolve, it will become clearer what levels of expertise are required for various specialties. I also recommend that if coaches without therapist backgrounds have concerns about material emerging in coaching sessions that may be indicative of referral for therapy, they should consult with a qualified therapist to discuss the appropriateness of referral.

I hope that helps clarify my approach – my mission is to reduce suffering in the workplace, and I believe skilled coaches who specialize in coaching abrasive bosses are eminently qualified to do so. I should add that there is a tremendous demand for this kind of work – companies need swift, effective assistance in “taming” bullying bosses.